There is a law - Now I agree with ed and elaine on the income tax and some other things, not most, but some. I have to point out, because I get aggrivated when people use the "show me the law argument" Don't get me wrong, i hate the income tax, but the law is

Newbie Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 6

Now I agree with ed and elaine on the income tax and some other things, not most, but some.
I have to point out, because I get aggrivated when people use the "show me the law argument"
Don't get me wrong, i hate the income tax, but the law is the 16th ammendment to the US constutution.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 5:46 pm

Quote:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census of enumeration.

Now look up how income is defined by the supreme court rulings.Before then a persons labor was not taxed.And after that the supreme court ruled that the 16th amendmant gave the congress no new taxing powers.So by definition if they did not have the power before the 16th amendmant then they do not have it now as that is what the supreme court had ruled.That is where they get there is no law as no law has been introduced to tax a persons labor.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:45 pm

Look Janon I don't know who you are or anything about you for that matter. But there are a few simple determining factors that not only proclaim the Brown's innocence but there is a monumental amount of evidence to show that the Income tax scam is just that >> it is a scam; and a ficticious scam at that.

Because the one thing that has convinced me and others more than anything is that there are no judges or prosecutors that have been able to show any of us "Chapter & Verse" of this LAW that is alledged to be on the books.

Look the last time I was even in traffic court which by most accounts are rigged like a pinball machine full of magnets. But at least even those horribly corrupt traffic courts will at least read you the law that you are alledgedly charged with. The last time I got a ticket was many years ago and they read me the section, code & statute and named off the numbers, chapter, section and the whole entirity of that law.

Now Janon my question to you is this: If there really is a true, bonafide written law pertaining to you and me being liable for an income tax don't you think that any judge or prosecutor should be able to recite the law by Chapter & Verse even off the top of their head. But they can't tell you or recite you the law when it doesn't exist. If there was a law they would be able to take you to their law library and they would be able to show it to you in writing in very short order. But they can't show you what doesn't exist. I can't show you a frog that talks English; I can't show you a 5 year old girl who can fly like a bird; I can't show you a device that will turn aluminum cans into gold bullion>>>> The reason I can't show you any of that stuff is very simple>> and that's because it simply doesn't exist. You can show someone something that exists but you can't show people something that doesn't exists. IT's really that simple. The law pertaining to mandatory payment of Federal Income Tax for the average wage earner in this country doesn't exist. It's a scam pure and simple. I've asked 3 lawyers and 2 accountants and none of them have been able to show me either. If it was there they would have produced it by now. It is truly that simple.

Initiate Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 459

janon6

Go, read, and learn, buy or borrow the books they are very good, full of wonderful information to feed your mind and teach you what the laws really say. The government has not been able to stop the avalanche of money, liens released, and the like from people seeking to hold the government to the law. Go view the evidence for yourself.

Yes there is a law, but it does not pertain to most Americans. The fraud comes in when the government makes everybody think it pertains to them and does not show them how to rebut the information returns they have received erroneously from your private sector employers. These information returns are treated as sworn statements against you and it is up to you to uphold the rule of law and rebut them.

http://www.losthorizons.com/Newsletter.htm

Recruit Joined: Aug 08, 2007 Posts: 131

Congress had transfered their power to tax to a private institution. This goes against the Constitution and is against the law. Direct and unapportioned taxes are also illegal to prescribe. All direct taxes must be apportioned, this is also against the Constitution.

This is inline with the 14th amendment that any Citizen naturalised within the State is basically a product of it. Thus turning the rights of the people into priviledges. This brings the American to a level lower than the government which is the direct opposite of how it's suppose to be. Government is made by the people so the government, the created, doesn't have the authority to take away from their creator. The 14th amendment should be repealed as well as the 16th.

Newbie Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 6

sheildbreaker- don't just tell me to look it up, thats poor debating skills

Everyone one else don't restate a poor argument over over again- i just said the was the 16th amendment
The browns were arrest by a corrupt government, by corrupt officers, enforcing corrupt legislation ( the 16th amendment), made by corrupt lawmakers. A government strayed from its values. And as stated by the declaration Of Independence, We have a right to revolution.
This discussion is about developing a better argument against the income tax
the amendment stated that taxes must be indirect and unnapportioned was REPEALED to make the 16th ammendment
And it dosen't apply to most americans? prove it. I would assume that unless stated otherwise, that any "tax" applies to the average american

this is my argument:
-the income tax was instituted after WWII to pay for they
-the people accepted it because of the fervor over the our win over hitler
-Now it has stayed and elevated itself to theft
-We cannot let our government steel our money to buy $300 hammers

Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:47 am

janon6 wrote:

sheildbreaker- don't just tell me to look it up, thats poor debating skills

Everyone one else don't restate a poor argument over over again- i just said the was the 16th amendment
The browns were arrest by a corrupt government, by corrupt officers, enforcing corrupt legislation ( the 16th amendment), made by corrupt lawmakers. A government strayed from its values. And as stated by the declaration Of Independence, We have a right to revolution.
This discussion is about developing a better argument against the income tax
the amendment stated that taxes must be indirect and unnapportioned was REPEALED to make the 16th ammendment
And it dosen't apply to most americans? prove it. I would assume that unless stated otherwise, that any "tax" applies to the average american

this is my argument:
-the income tax was instituted after WWII to pay for they
-the people accepted it because of the fervor over the our win over hitler
-Now it has stayed and elevated itself to theft
-We cannot let our government steel our money to buy $300 hammers

I mention for you to look it up as then you are not just being told some thing you are learning it.You know like the saying that if you give a man a fish he eats for a day, if you teach a man to fish he eats for a life time.The sixteenth amendment was added July 2, 1909 and Ratified February 3, 1913.

http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_amendments_11-27.html

Which can be found with a short google search.And most believe world war 2 started around 1939 which is 26 years past what you are talking about (if you start it at the year 1913 if at 1909 it is 30 years).So I do not see how it connects.

Quote:

According to the History of the Income Tax in our almanac, the federal income tax was first enacted in 1862 to support the Union's Civil War effort. It was eliminated in 1872, revived in 1894, then declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court the following year. In 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture in the U.S. tax system.

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/federal-income-tax.html

Not the best information but not wishing to do all the searching for you it does explain much.It is always best to do long searches and trace things clear back as possible and have several sorces to speak from.But it is around 12:45 am for me so I am not going to do it at this time.What I just stated and posted took less then 5 minutes to find.I could be wrong on a few things (it is kind of late) but it is a good bench mark to start your own search from.Well good night.

Recruit Joined: Aug 08, 2007 Posts: 131

The 16th amendment is null and void as I previously stated why. No color of law can trump this. The only people who can tax are Congress and the government, not a privately owned banking corporation. The amendment also doesn't fall within the two lawful forms of taxation so again, null and void. The reason why the supreme court renders the tax unconstitutional because it doesn't follow the Constitution.

The Federal governments responsibilities land solely on preventing foreign invasions, securing the borders and that's it. Not to collect unjust taxes and to intrude on people's privacies, nor to lock people up for noncrimes.

Newbie Joined: Aug 12, 2007 Posts: 8

Theres no law to pay it or file it, there is laws and penalties for not doing so.
I myself think that doesn't make all that much sense.
If one supreme court, rules once, that a person is not liable to pay the income tax, just once, then it is an obstruction of justice if any future supreme court, or any other court, rules otherwise.
It doesn't mean these people in this particular circumstance are not liable, it means these people as citizens of the usa are not liable.

Newbie Joined: Nov 06, 2007 Posts: 6

yes the amendment was made in 1913, but it wasn't instituted until after WWII.President Taft believed, along with congress that the people just would stand for it
stop treating me like a dumbass

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

Why can't we demand transparency in our government again. All they seem to do is write code that is more and more confusing for the average person.

Evidentally this would really expose the power elite for what they really are ..........nothing but criminals and slave masters of the worst order.

Bush and Cheney are nothing but puppets doing their dirty work..........we still have a chance to fight this but the time is now!

Recruit Joined: Aug 08, 2007 Posts: 131

Powerful people do not like the Constitution because the purpose of it is to limit the Governments' power over the people so those people will do anything possible to rewrite it toward their own agendas through use of color-of-law.

Initiate Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 459

Wow RJ you have grown up.

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

As far as I am concerned rj was always grown up. His posts have always been respectful and informative.

Initiate Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 459

What I ment maid is his avatar aged about 20 years. Smile

maybe 25.

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

Yeah I finally got that too..............and then I noticed a strong resemblence between his avatar and Aaron Russo. But just in case I had to ask him!

Since I am so quick on the uptake....................I am getting really scared that the neocons and global elite will be able to hoodwink me big time!

Oh well, in the mean time I will do what I can to speak out against them that's for sure and leave the heavy duty stuff to those who know what they are doing! Embarassed

Initiate Joined: May 09, 2007 Posts: 459

I agree, let those with the money and brains fight those that have both the power and money. All we can do is chear them on and hope they win a victory for all us.

Recruit Joined: Aug 08, 2007 Posts: 131

lol. Sometimes I feel that my hair might be turning that color really soon. that's if it doesn't fall out first.