blog w/ video from the arrest by marshals - How can I show you a law that doesn't exist? That's not my question. We already know that the gov't doesn't play fair. Protesting hasn't done a lick of good, either. My question is, is it time to change tactics?

Recruit Joined: Sep 14, 2007 Posts: 140

Monier also added that officials have encountered no retaliatory action from supporters of the Browns as yet, but warned that any further supportive actions at this time could result in federal charges.

Thanks for the article J82, but I won't believe a word of it until I see indisputable proof that Ed and Elaine are okay.

Hmmmm... So now Mr Monier is threatening to jail me for simply supporting the Browns? I wonder how long until the SS is at my doorstep?

Newbie Joined: Oct 06, 2007 Posts: 23

Does anyone still think this battle can be won with blogs and donations?

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

Sonny, since you are such a newbie, I need to ask.... are you sincere in your questions or are you here to taunt and gloat like the rest of the trolls that have come here since Ed and Elaine's arrest?

If you are another government troll, then I suggest you take some time and ponder why a couple in their late sixties have to go to jail for 5 years and have their property stolen by the IRS for asking the question Show Me the Law? Does not the fact that Ed put up a $1,000,000. piece of property and no one came forth and showed the law tell you anything? Are you at least asking yourself that question and what do you come up with for an answer? Maybe I am missing something but when was it a crime to ask a question in America? Do you think that 5 years and stealing ther business property and home is a little harsh for asking a question?

Why did the IRS not answer the question and save the state of New Hampshire tax payers all that money? Why do the IRS want to dominate, punish and control Americain citizens in this manner? Where is the so called freedom that you seem to think you have?

Tell you what Sonny .........you show us the law........O.K. If you can't then Shut the F--- up and get the hell out of here. This is not over yet! We have just begun to fight!

Newbie Joined: Oct 06, 2007 Posts: 23

How can I show you a law that doesn't exist? That's not my question. We already know that the gov't doesn't play fair. Protesting hasn't done a lick of good, either. My question is, is it time to change tactics?

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

State your tactics Sonny..............you are the new guy...........we know ours explain yours!

Newbie Joined: Oct 06, 2007 Posts: 23

Let's just say that the anger directed at Monier is misdirected. He is only following orders. You need to focus on the ones giving the orders.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

in the immortal words of my old drill sergeant: "shit rolls downhill". sonny where do you think we should direct our anger and what tactical ideas do you have?

Newbie Joined: Oct 06, 2007 Posts: 23

Well let's look at this logically for a second. We all know there's no law, but the courts seem to see one and they do enforce it. As long as they do that, then there is a law, at least in a practical sense. Since the courts go by each other's precedents, there is absolutely no chance anything we say in court will make them see it our way. There are no magic words to get out of jail free, and we need to stop pretending that there are.

Basically it comes down to two choices -- play by the rules or play outside the rules. Since it's forbidden to discuss playing outside the rules on this site, and may get you an unpleasant visit from the alphabet boys, we'll stick to discussing tactics within the rules.

Option 1: Get a precedent that defines the law our way. The only way that's going to happen is if one of us is appointed as a federal judge.

Option 2: Get Congress to pass a bill clarifying the law to make it clear that citizens income is not taxable.

What E&E did was try to play both within and outside the rules. You can't do both. You can't try to win in court, then ignore the verdict and go home and pretend like nothing happened. It won't work, and we can see the result.

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

You obvously do not know anything about the case or you would not have made that statement. As to making a generalized statement that ALL THE COURTS see things the way McAuliffe ruled is blatently false. See IRS Vs Kuglin and read where Judge McCalla even states to the US Attorney Murphy......."I don't work for the IRS."

Monier has put himself out there with his smug little press conference and the lies he stated that Ed and Elaine threatened violence. Then in the other breath he talks about their open door policy to friend, neighbors and supporters. Is that the behavior of anyone who has anything to hide and is threatening violence?

He deserves our anger for his blatent lies. Then on top of that he is a Bush appointee. The administration that has constantly lied to the American people since 911. Bush and Cheney now have our young people in Iraq committing torture for God's sake! Just the fact that Monier is a Bush appointee alone condems him as a man lacking in honesty as far as I am concerned. I hate cliches ..........but you have to admit they are truisms.................Birds of a feather flock together apples here. Moner needs to hang his head in same over what he has done to his own country men and women. The Browns are not ciminals and he knows it. The US Marshals even admit that they know there is no f---ing law, as they stated to Danny Riley. My God what is happening in America, where did we get to this level of depravity and shame?

Everything is exactly the way it should be right now. How do you know that the tactics were not changed? You are assuming.

Monier does not know the word no........is that what you are saying? Just following orders did not hack it with the Nazis at the Geneva trials and it is not good enough here. You have to come up with something a lot better than this as far as I am concerned!

Initiate Joined: Jun 20, 2007 Posts: 430

Probably the reason the feds are so anxious to identify people who might whack them is because they intend to have the Browns die in custody rather soon, as a lesson to others about how futile it supposedly is to resist the government. Of course if (when) that happens, there will be people who contemplate violence--and I'm being restrained in the way I'm phrasing that...

Here is some useful info:

http://bop.gov/iloc2/LocateInmate.jsp

Elaine's register number is 03924-049
Ed's is 03923-049

Track them by using that URL.

================

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20061116.htm

Quote:

Tax honesty icon Irwin Schiff, 77, who last year was sentenced to 12 years in prison by a judge who would not allow "the law" into his courtroom, has filed a Motion for Reconsideration of the U.S. 9th District Court of Appeals one-page denial of Schiff’s 264-page (40-page brief and 224 pages of exhibits) appeal. "Schiff’s contention that his wages do not constitute income under the tax code has been rejected by this court," the 9th ruled.

Schiff is imprisoned at Fort Dix Federal Pen in New Jersey. Ill-fitted work boots caused an infection to develop in one of Schiff’s toes; poor nutrition and medical neglect carried the infection to the bone and the toe was amputated.

Work boots. He's 77 years old and he's breaking rocks or something.

**Member** Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 1235

Actually, I like the idea of option 2 if anyone has some friends in congress to rally support. I don't know, is that easily doable. Anyone have contacts?

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

Ahmed: alex jones said the same thing today on his show. the feds are afraid of the militia and of ed and elaine's supporters. they think the militia is going to unleash hell upon the federal gestapo. it's funny to watch the bad guys quiver in fear. i wonder if monier has messed his panties yet lol

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

you like option #2? are you kidding? you actually trust congress to pass a just law? and you are not afraid we would not end up with just the opposite of what we want/need/deserve? i say leave congress out of it. someone needs to take it to the supreme court, and if the supreme court rules against precedence then we know, without a doubt, there is no other hope legally.

**Member** Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 1235

Good point UE, check out this related short

http://youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask

Newbie Joined: Jun 14, 2007 Posts: 73

I didn't want to say it so I have only tried to focus attention towards finding out how the Browns are. But now that Ahmed has mentioned it,,, I hope that the Browns are alive now and that they don't get a "sudden inclination" to commit suicide or be put in a cell with the wrong person. The feds know that the Browns will always be an embaressment for them and it would not be the first time that someone dies in a prison and the truth dies with them.

Noone has seen the Brown's house, as far as I know noone has seen the Browns. I don't have a tv so I have to ask have the Browns been shown on the tube since their arrest? It is quite typical for famous/dangerous criminals to be paraded at least once in front of the cameras after an arrest.

Knowing these scum they are now trying to figure out how to get rid of the Browns in the quietest way possible.

What can be done to verify the state of their health?

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

not to mention that when you search the bureau of prison's database elaine is listed as not in their custody, while ed is in a low security prison.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:26 am

I just want to tell "REALISTICCITIZEN" that pimps, pedophiles and pornography addicts are not allowed on this Forum. This Forum is for real genuine people. It's not for pervert federal government bootlickers as you obviously are. You are truly on the same level as cockroaches and house flies. You are equally as disgusting as them but you are just as easy to deal with.
Ed & Elaine Brown have shown true raw courage which is something that is completely foreign to you.
I suggest you go and try to find yourself. Go to some of the genology websites and type in Judas IScariot, Benedict ARnold & Jeffrey Dahmer. I'm certain you're related to all of them. It will give you great family ties not to mention even show you some of your fellow pedophile government agents that you closely associate with.
Oh by the way I hear that the Hitlery Klinton campaign is looking for workers. You'll fit in well with that batch demented sewage. And that goes for the rest of you government butt kissers too.

Newbie Joined: Oct 06, 2007 Posts: 23

Of course there's still option 3: Secede from the union. In order for this to work, you won't be able to stay on your own land. You can declare your independence, but the feds won't recognize your yard as a separate country. To you it may be a war but to them it's just another door to be kicked in.

If you truly want to be free, you need to move it offshore, outside the immediate control of the feds.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:27 am

UlyssesEator wrote:

not to mention that when you search the bureau of prison's database elaine is listed as not in their custody, while ed is in a low security prison.

That's the wrong Ed Brown. Elaine is in the system.

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

so she is. she wasn't last night, or early this morning [Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:01 am http://www.makethestand.com/ftopicp-5033-.html#5033], when i first posted it.

now it has:

Quote:

1. ELAINE BROWN 03924-049 66 White F 04-30-2012 DANBURY FCI

and ed as not in custody! what's going on here? are they really that incompetent in their record keeping? first ahmed gets both numbers. then i look and elaine is not listed. and now ed is "not in custody". and if they received 63 months, then it seems they are counting their imprisonment in their home as time served?

how did ahmed get elaine's # at 10:20 pm Sat Oct 06, 2007 when it was not there an hour and a half later?

ahmed:

Quote:

Elaine's register number is 03924-049
Ed's is 03923-049

Quote:

1. EDWARD BROWN 96475-024 54 White M 08-14-1987 RELEASED

2. EDWARD BROWN 11188-097 57 White M 09-01-1998 RELEASED

3. EDWARD BROWN 03205-027 58 White M 02-28-1993 RELEASED

4. EDWARD BROWN 03923-049 65 White M 04-30-2012 NOT IN BOP CUSTODY

5. EDWARD BROWN 30818-004 58 White M 03-30-1999 RELEASED

6. EDWARD BROWN 43342-066 57 White M 07-16-1998 RELEASED

7. EDWARD DEE BROWN 04891-033 41 White M 04-11-1996 RELEASED

8. EDWARD EMMETT BROWN 22863-048 94 White M 10-11-1985 RELEASED

9. EDWARD ERN BROWN 52653-097 55 White M 07-25-1986 RELEASED

10. EDWARD EUGENE BROWN 14135-047 50 White M 09-24-2004 RELEASED

11. EDWARD J BROWN 08670-081 55 White M 06-18-2014 FLORENCE ADMAX USP

12. EDWARD JAMES BROWN 06437-073 55 White M 06-16-1992 RELEASED

13. EDWARD M BROWN 04102-082 38 White M 12-01-2006 RELEASED

14. EDWARD RILEY BROWN 19372-044 54 White M 04-20-1997 RELEASED

15. EDWARD THOMAS BROWN 55201-097 48 White M 05-24-1996 RELEASED

Initiate Joined: Jun 20, 2007 Posts: 430

If Ed Brown is "not in BOP custody" it means he is in the custody of the Marshals. It is very likely that Ed is being subjected to a form of torture called "diesel therapy".

http://www.uwsa.com/Uwsadisclosure.prison.html
(The entire article is worth reading)

Quote:

Political prisoners (ED: Political prisoners? In America?? You betcha!!!) and those who are considered trouble makers arc given what prisoners call, "diesel therapy". "Diesel therapy" consists of being put on diesel buses or airplanes and being transported from prison to prison for weeks and months at a time (ED: ALL at the expense of the taxpayers!).

On the surface it sounds benign. What could be the problem with making a prisoner ride in a bus for hours at a time?

Torture American Style

Before the prisoner is put on the bus, he is put in handcuffs and shackles (leg irons). The handcuffs are tightened by a black box that stiffens the chains and puts the wrists in a 90 degree bind that painfully cuts circulation and damages the nerves. It takes several weeks for the circulation and nerves to return to normal. The handcuffs are connected with chains to a waist chain, which is in turn connected by another chain to the shackles which go around the ankles The prisoner can barely move once the shackling process is complete.

He is then placed in a small seat on a bus or airplane. Because of the shackles, the prisoner is forced to sit in one position for up to 20 hours at a time. And the guards will rarely go to the trouble of unshackling a prisoner. Prisoners who understand "diesel therapy" know that "fasting" is the only way to handle the ordeal without messing or wetting yourself.

But even those who are smart enough to abstain from food and drink, still have to suffer the stench of urine and feces which soon fills the bus or plane.

One other painful aspect of diesel therapy is the shoes that prisoners are forced to wear. They become too small.

The cramped position and tight shackles cause the feet and ankles to swell. The shackles cut into the legs and cut off circulation. The blood pools in the feet and causes the feet to swell. The toes are forced up against the tops of the too small shoes, and unbelievable pressure is put on the toenails. The toenails soon become deformed, infected and painful.

Each day the metal shackles are put back onto raw and infected legs before the prisoner boards the bus. After weeks and months of diesel therapy, the ankles and shins have raw, infected and open wounds that will not heal.

Hour after hour, the prisoner sits in a cramped & painful position, with shackles cutting into already infected, raw flesh. Arthritis and bursitis compound the misery of the prisoners. The ingrown, infected toenails, which are jammed inside of purposely small shoes, cripple the prisoner to the point that he can barely walk or move when he is finally released from the shackles.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:33 pm

UlyssesEator wrote:

so she is. she wasn't last night, or early this morning [Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:01 am http://www.makethestand.com/ftopicp-5033-.html#5033], when i first posted it.

now it has:

Quote:

1. ELAINE BROWN 03924-049 66 White F 04-30-2012 DANBURY FCI

and ed as not in custody! what's going on here? are they really that incompetent in their record keeping? first ahmed gets both numbers. then i look and elaine is not listed. and now ed is "not in custody". and if they received 63 months, then it seems they are counting their imprisonment in their home as time served?

Ed is simply not yet listed in the BoP database. He's in their custody though. They'll process him and get him locked in before they worry about updating the public record of his incarceration.
And no, the time he spent at his house will not be considered time served. He was considered a fugitive during that time and will probably be hit with numerous additional charges as a result (fugitive, weapons possession, terroristic threats, etc.).
There is a very good chance that Ed Brown will never again see his wife or another day as a free man.

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

I hope you are right Vander and that they are not doing diesel therapy on him.

It is the week-end and one can only hope that they are busy and have not updated the paper work. However three days seems like a long time to get things done.

let's not jump the gun on whether or not Ed wll be charged and convicted with any other charges here. No one knows that and there are those of us who are doing things that might just get Ed a fair trial allowing him to present some evidence that would give him the same verdict not guilty verdict as those in Tenessee and Navada.

Lots of things are in the works that will be posted as they are worked out. Let's keep a positive light going here folks. We are all they have rght now.

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

i was raising the question about time served due to the expected release date they show on his info [copied/pasted above], vandar. maybe they are just so incompetent that their records are totally off.

it's all just odd that their records change from hour to hour, and then back again. it is also odd that no one has seen ed or elaine. no one really knows if they have been arrested or not. no one knows if they are still alive or not.

why would they hide this now? it has been three days--surely enough time for them to safely secret them away. so that cannot be the problem. and the MSM is ignoring this oddity.

does no one here live close enough to plainfield to go to ed and elaine's home? does no one here know elaine's son? why has their son not spoken? who is running their myspace page? who is the one posting on the home page here?

why is shaun so quiet? why is he coming to the site yet not posting? why is he not only banning people, but also removing their posts? why is he not commenting on the ban[s] and removals? this is not shaun's MO.

i have lots of questions--and no answers. if you have insider information and can speak with authority, vandar, or anyone else, then by all means do so.

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

something's rotten in this forum and it ain't the cheese.

i'm outta here.

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:57 pm

UlyssesEator wrote:

i was raising the question about time served due to the expected release date they show on his info [copied/pasted above], vandar. maybe they are just so incompetent that their records are totally off.

They probably entered the "projected release date" right after he was sentenced.

Quote:

it's all just odd that their records change from hour to hour, and then back again. it is also odd that no one has seen ed or elaine. no one really knows if they have been arrested or not. no one knows if they are still alive or not.

It's a safe bet they're both still alive. Elaine wouldn't be listed in the system at all if she weren't "in the system".

Quote:

why would they hide this now? it has been three days--surely enough time for them to safely secret them away. so that cannot be the problem. and the MSM is ignoring this oddity.

The mainstream media has ignored most of the Browns' story. The majority of people believe that what the Browns did was wrong and the only thing they (the majority of people) are interested in is what was taking the Marshals so long to apprehend them. The public expected the feds to overreact.

Quote:

does no one here live close enough to plainfield to go to ed and elaine's home? does no one here know elaine's son? why has their son not spoken? who is running their myspace page? who is the one posting on the home page here?

why is shaun so quiet? why is he coming to the site yet not posting? why is he not only banning people, but also removing their posts? why is he not commenting on the ban[s] and removals? this is not shaun's MO.

i have lots of questions--and no answers. if you have insider information and can speak with authority, vandar, or anyone else, then by all means do so.

I don't have any more information than I offer here, and I offer it freely. I know a couple of people in the BoP and a couple of people in the custody of the BoP.

Initiate Joined: Jun 20, 2007 Posts: 430

I want to compliment Shaun for picking up the ball and running with it. He's been on Republic Broadcasting and on the Alex Jones show today and the word is getting out about Ed Brown's disappearance.

You can help by going to digg.com and digging this story:

http://digg.com/politics/Supporters_Fear_Ed_Brown_Is_Being_Tortured

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

Sonny wrote:

Basically it comes down to two choices -- play by the rules or play outside the rules. Since it's forbidden to discuss playing outside the rules on this site, and may get you an unpleasant visit from the alphabet boys, we'll stick to discussing tactics within the rules.

It depends on what rules you're talking about playing outside of. If you are talking about the rules of morality, then that's a true statement. If you're talking about the rules of non-agression, non-initiation of force (except under direct and imminent threat) then you're absolutely correct.

If you're talking about working OUTSIDE the system, then you couldn't be more wrong. We are ALL about working outside the system. Because the system WAS DESIGNED TO BECOME THE WAY IT IS TODAY. That's right, that's the truth.

So please, by all means, DON'T play by the rules of the matrix. Don't play by the rules of the system. Don't play the game when the table is tilted against you.

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 3128

In the 60's the expression was ........."drop out, tune in, and turn on."

Well one can only do that for so long................then there comes a time!

Newbie Joined: Oct 06, 2007 Posts: 23

By "the rules" I meant the applicable laws enacted by the government. Whether the government is legitimate or not is irrelevant. The legitimate government is nowhere to be found so the one we have, legitimate or not, is the de facto governement and their laws must be obeyed to be within "the rules".

As to what I mean by playing outside the rules, well I'll leave that to the imagination.