Alert - Gun Owners' of America - Good News - I support Gun Owners of America. After all, they supported me with my legal problem (without me even asking for their help). But I do believe it's a little ridiculous to pass this off as some sort of victory. I'd much rather

Initiate Joined: Jun 23, 2007 Posts: 259

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org/ordergoamem.htm

Friday, September 7, 2007

Senator David Vitter (R-LA) pushed a pro-gun amendment through the
U.S. Senate last night on an 81-10 vote. GOA worked closely with
Vitter in getting the language just right, as Senate rules make it
difficult to attach certain amendments to spending bills.

The Vitter provision stipulates that no U.S. funds can be used by the
United Nations -- or organizations affiliated with the UN -- to
restrict or tax our gun rights. Hence, the amendment would give a
mildly pro-gun administration the excuse to stop sending US taxpayer
funds to the United Nations as soon as they adopt any policy to
restrict the Second Amendment rights of Americans. (The Vitter
amendment was added to HR 2764, the Department of State
appropriations bill.)

Interestingly, four of the Senators who opposed the pro-gun Vitter
amendment ALSO spoke in favor of the Veterans Disarmament Act during
a committee vote in July -- Senators Dick Durbin (D-IL), Dianne
Feinstein (D-CA), Ted Kennedy (D-MA) and Chuck Schumer (D-NY).

All four of these notoriously anti-gun Senators have now demonstrated
their support for INTERNATIONAL GUN CONTROL, even while they support
the Veterans Disarmament Bill here at home. The latter bill only has
a number in the House (HR 2640). This measure has been introduced by
the equally anti-gun Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY), and will expand
the Brady Law to deny firearms to hundreds of thousands of
law-abiding Americans. See http://www.gunowners.org/netb.htm for
more information on the Veterans Disarmament Bill.

ACTION: Please send Sen. Vitter a brief thank you for all the work
he has done for gun owners nationwide. You will remember that last
year, he succeeded in getting language passed (and signed by the
President) to ban the confiscation of firearms during a declared
emergency.

You can use the "Compose Your Own Letter" option at
http://capwiz.com/gunowners/mail/?id=699&type=CO&state=LA to send a
message such as the one below to Senator Vitter.

Or, his fax number is 202-228-5061.

----- Pre-written letter -----

Dear Senator Vitter:

Thank you so much for your efforts to defend the U.S. Constitution
and the Second Amendment in particular. I agree that the United
Nations is filled with tons of gun-grabbing tyrants, and your
amendment is a great first step towards doing something about it.

Please keep up the good work!

Sincerely,

****************************

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Requests for information are confidential and do not represent an
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Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 578

I support Gun Owners of America. After all, they supported me with my legal problem (without me even asking for their help).

But I do believe it's a little ridiculous to pass this off as some sort of victory. I'd much rather see the ability to manufacture and own automatic weapons restored. When Congress purportedly outlawed the manufacture of these arms, it was one of the greatest losses the 2nd Amendment has ever suffered.

Initiate Joined: Jun 20, 2007 Posts: 430

There is a particularly vile anti-gun bill in the works called the McCarthy-Leahy bill -- named after Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY) and Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT). Also known as H.R. 1022.

Excerpts from http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1022.IH:

Quote:

A BILL To reauthorize the assault weapons ban, and for other purposes

(30) The term `semiautomatic assault weapon' means any of the following:

`(A) The following rifles or copies or duplicates thereof:

`(i) AK, AKM, AKS, AK-47, AK-74, ARM, MAK90, Misr, NHM 90, NHM 91, SA 85, SA 93, VEPR;
`(ii) AR-10;
`(iii) AR-15, Bushmaster XM15, Armalite M15, or Olympic Arms PCR;
`(iv) AR70;
`(v) Calico Liberty;
`(vi) Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or Dragunov SVU;
`(vii) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FNC;
`(viii) Hi-Point Carbine;
`(ix) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, or HK-PSG-1;
`(x) Kel-Tec Sub Rifle;
`(xi) M1 Carbine;
`(xii) Saiga;
`(xiii) SAR-8, SAR-4800;
`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;
`(xv) SLG 95;
`(xvi) SLR 95 or 96;
`(xvii) Steyr AUG;
`(xviii) Sturm, Ruger Mini-14;
`(xix) Tavor;
`(xx) Thompson 1927, Thompson M1, or Thompson 1927 Commando; or
`(xxi) Uzi, Galil and Uzi Sporter, Galil Sporter, or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz).

(F) A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has--

`(i) a second pistol grip;
`(ii) a threaded barrel;
`(iii) a barrel shroud; or
`(iv) the capacity to accept a detachable magazine at a location outside of the pistol grip.

`(G) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

`(H) A semiautomatic shotgun that has--

`(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
`(ii) a pistol grip;
`(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine; or
`(iv) a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds.

`(K) A conversion kit.

`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'.

Newbie Joined: Sep 18, 2007 Posts: 20

Shaun wrote:

I support Gun Owners of America. After all, they supported me with my legal problem (without me even asking for their help).

But I do believe it's a little ridiculous to pass this off as some sort of victory. I'd much rather see the ability to manufacture and own automatic weapons restored. When Congress purportedly outlawed the manufacture of these arms, it was one of the greatest losses the 2nd Amendment has ever suffered.

Agreed.
While I believe the GOA is one of the best organizations out there I do not see cause for celebration.

The real truth is our right, as well as our will,to keep and bear arms is being decimated so badly that anything that is not a blatant loss of Liberty is now heralded as a victory.

I am on the board of directors for the Pennsylvania Gun owners association and I see people celebrate this sort of thing frequently.

Maybe it makes them feel better about the effort they put into defending the 2nd amendment or something.

Initiate Joined: Jun 23, 2007 Posts: 259

Maybe this is no victory, but I felt like it was better than nothing.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

Ahmed i just noticed something about that law which is funny and that is the M4 isn't listed as a banned weapon which is sweet.

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

how ironic is it that, on the home page of the site which ahmed gives the link to-- http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:H.R.1022.IH:--this is written:
---------------------
"THOMAS
In the spirit of Thomas Jefferson, legislative information from the Library of Congress"
--------------------

so i did a little search for quotes, and came up with the following...

--------------------
quotes from jefferson:

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1 Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

"I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical."
-- Thomas Jefferson, Letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

Thomas Jefferson: "The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes....Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book," 1774-1776, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in Chapter 40 of "On Crimes and Punishment", 1764.

Thomas Jefferson: "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

Thomas Jefferson: "The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the Atmosphere.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams, 1787

& what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787

Thomas Jefferson: "On every occasion...[of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed." (June 12 1823, Letter to William Johnson)

quotes from others:

Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let's not have any native militia or native police. German troops alone will bear the sole responsibility for the maintenance of law and order throughout the occupied Russian territories, and a system of military strong-points must be evolved to cover the entire occupied country." Adolf Hitler, dinner talk on April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Table Talk 1941-44: His Private Conversations, Second Edition (1973), Pg. 425-426. Translated by Norman Cameron and R. H. Stevens.

Mao Tse Tung: "All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party." (Problems of War and Strategy, Nov 6 1938, published in "Selected Works of Mao Zedong," 1965)

Admiral Yamamoto: "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." Advising Japan's military leaders of the futility of an invasion of the mainland United States because of the widespread availability of guns. It has been theorized that this was a major contributing factor in Japan's decision not to land on North America early in the war when they had vastly superior military strength. This delay gave our industrial infrastructure time to gear up for the conflict and was decisive in our later victory.

George Orwell: "That rifle on the wall of the labourer's cottage or working class flat is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
-----------------------
ANY QUESTIONS?!?!?!?!??

Initiate Joined: Jun 20, 2007 Posts: 430

I wonder if someone could get GOA interested in the charge of "Use of a firearm in relation to a crime of violence" filed against some or all of the 4 Brown supporters.

Conviction carries an automatic five year sentence, in addition to any other penalties. In other words, it is consecutive.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

ahmed: since they support shaun perhaps he could run this case by them and see what they have to say.

**Member** Joined: Jun 12, 2007 Posts: 2960

UE ............Thanks for your post. It is so important that we go back and read the papers of the founding fathers. They knew what it was like to throw off the weight of the British Empire .............that was no small undertaking. Great Britton ruled the world at that time and the founding fathers must have been overwhelmed at tims also.

Great to read Jefferson...........one of my favorites.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

considering the fact that all lawyers and subjects of the british empire and that our entire legal system is based upon and connected to theirs we still haven't became entirely independant. we need to listen to the words of jefferson. he knew, as all of our forefathers did, that the government would trample upon the rights of the people if they got too big and unfortunately jefferson was right on the money.

Newbie Joined: Jun 18, 2007 Posts: 90

Johnny82 wrote:

Ahmed i just noticed something about that law which is funny and that is the M4 isn't listed as a banned weapon which is sweet.

the m4 falls under section (L) just like a ruger mini-30 would.

but what whats funny is this
`(xiv) SKS with detachable magazine;

I guess they forgot about the Yugoslavian 59/66 Sks.

Rolling Eyes

but i'm sure that falls under section (L) aswell..

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

what's funny is they included an M-1 carbine. must be because of the plethora of banana mags/clips--it sure isn't for accuracy or range!

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

if a M1 garand is a assault weapon then i'm the pope. it is a military rifle but under the second amendment we are allowed to own military weaponry and it is against the law for the federal government to regulate access to weapons due to the fact that IT SUPPRESSES THE RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE!

Recruit Joined: Sep 14, 2007 Posts: 140

Meh, don't worry about that stuff. They forgot the Metal Storm line of weapons. ( drools Very Happy

)
(hypothetically) Mate one of those with a BARRET rifle barrel and you may have a better semi-automatic sniper. Twisted Evil

Hello ten points (buck) from a mile away!
Umm. Since when did our government give a scat about rights?

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

sickleye: good point. if the people are going to arm up, we have the right to have military weapons. the founding fathers stated so. we are a militia after all.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

go to www.bushmaster.com and see their fine selection of home defense weapons. if you want a quality handgun, get a springfield XD, perticularly a .45 caliber. go to www.springfield.com and check out what they have.

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

i've asked my rep, via email, his position on HR 1022. haven't heard back yet except for a generic form mail.

has anyone else asked their rep? if so, post any answers you receive here on the forum.

oh--has the nra said anything about this? are they asking presidential, senatorial, congressional candidates about this dirtbag piece of legislation?

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

UE: I just asked my rep and senator why in god's name are they allowing bush to sell our rights away and why aren't they impeaching him and stopping the north american union from going through? i'll post their response when i get it.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

and now i just questioned my congressman on HR 1022. what is hr 1022 anyways?

Recruit Joined: Jul 03, 2007 Posts: 237

see ahmed's post above.

Johnny82 wrote:

and now i just questioned my congressman on HR 1022. what is hr 1022 anyways?

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

UE, Ahmed, Sickleye, Ugly, Rella, Shaun, MaidMarion: I hope this bill doesn't go through because it is a infringement of our rights but in anticipation of a worse case scenerio if any of us or our friends and allies wants any of these perticular weapons, perhaps now is the time to make a purchase.

Recruit Joined: Sep 14, 2007 Posts: 140

At the moment I am twenty years old, and working a rather dead-end job. 8 debt notes an hour. So it is hard for me to afford a paintball gun.
I could go to college, but I refuse to fill out a FAFSA.
This does not mean I am defenseless. I am still skilled in making traps, rigging electronics, and general counter-intelligence.

Currently I am researching portable emp generators, to give you an idea of what I can do.
But I will accept donations. Wink

As all of my possessions can fit into the back of a small jalopy, I am very easily mobilized.
That is what I can bring to the table.

**Member** Joined: Jul 02, 2007 Posts: 614

Sickleye: you should look into the following books: "the black book of revenge", "the anarchists cookbook", "fighting in the streets" and you could also go to www.cheaperthandirt.com and look into their selection of books and other gear. they have alot of military field manuals on various subjects. these might help you enhance your skills. just a suggestion.