SENTENCING RESULTS FOR ED & ELAINE!!! - I've received word that Elaine has received 63 months of jailtime and 3 years of restricted probation. Check here for live updates!!! We will make sure you get the real story of the results!!!

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

I've received word that Elaine has received 63 months of jailtime and 3 years of restricted probation. Check here for live updates!!! We will make sure you get the real story of the results!!!

Recruit Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 193

has he been arrested yet?

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

No way -- they haven't served their BS "warrants" yet. The US Marshall keeps saying that they aren't going to raid the place -- but no one has any faith in his words. The order could come down any time.

Recruit Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 193

all iknow from what i herd alittle while back that his arrest was order and seisure of his land was to be taken for payment.

Newbie Joined: Apr 24, 2007 Posts: 2

I'm feeling so sick inside today. I am so far away, I should be there. I can only pray and of course call and write the feds to at least let them know we are watching.

Recruit Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 193

ok here,s the scoop ed has gotten the same sentence as his wife and is required to wear a ankle bracelet 63 months imprisonment & 3 yrs probation both to serve the same sentence. im sure Shaun will add more on this story on the updates.

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2007 3:19 pm

They're not actually going to "turn themselves in" are they? Question

Recruit Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 193

not from what been told he,s staying put and the police are not going in either.

Newbie Joined: Apr 24, 2007 Posts: 2

We must continue to put pressure on the sheriff and feds to NEVER make their move.

LIVE FREE OR DIE!!!!

Newbie Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 4

I am torn over this. I actually believe we DO owe income tax and that its legal - My problem is money earned for work performed is not and can not be defined as income. Its silly to call an even exchange income. If I traded my Jeep to you for Some other car is that income do I need to claim it? Then why should I have to claim money I receive in exchange for work performed?

But thats another issue. I am trying to figure out what they hope to gain. I understand the concept but sadly do not think it will be effective. Most of the US population is so apathetic and uncaring its a disgrace. The only way there actions can work is if they would win as in not be arrested but thats impossible.

The government MUST arrest them or they will send a message to the populace that there actions are warranted or justified (Ed and Elaine's actions) so arrest is automatic it must happen (its just a matter of how)

I do believe if they feel they are right they should resist with maximum non threatening force (last thing you need is to give them a reason to shoot you cause then you automatically lose Sad

If you are firm in your belief as an american you would have no choice but to consider yourself a prisoner of war and your duty is to resist and escape.

There actions sadly will not prevail. This kind of action can never work UNLESS you have numbers. IE if we could get even just 10% of the population to not pay taxes and refuse to budge to stand there ground its an automatic win. What are they going to do arrest 30 million people? With what forces ?

IE this method can only work if enough do it.

One of the fundamental reasons this illegal and immoral tax system even works is oddly enough because we do not have to pay it.

Let me clarify that. We are hugely overtaxed. In Extreme. but since we do not have to pay a tax bill we do not feel it.

How many of you actually pay a tax bill ? not many. Most its withdrawn from each paycheck automatically and then they "kindly" give some back at the end of the year. Most people never even consider that this is money that was taken from them and its not GIVEN back its DUE back it was always there's

Since my tax liability is so low I plan to have ZERO withholding this year and I will "pay" my tax bill next April in full. (I am not in a position to resist as Ed and Elaine have chosen to do)

Now my tax liability is under a thousand dollars. I plan to deposit and earn interest on my money. Not give it to the government and let them earn interest on my money. (and off course I will be taxed on the interest WHICH by the way IS income so I am ok with that)

If there was no withholding our taxes would be a fraction of what they are today because the citizens would have BALKED at its excessive price tag a LONG time ago. but because its split 24 or even 52 times in each pay check we "do not notice" and our general apathy causes us to ignore it.

Very Sad state of affairs. Love how the other "taxes" (medicare and SS) are SEPARATED now allowing us to be taxed even more and off course no refund on limits on those taxes now that they are separate. Cute ehh.

Oh and all the taxes are based on your GROSS even though its impossible for you to ever receive your gross? Cute ehh ?

Ehh what are you going to do. The only way to fight this and win is for America to "wake up" and "stand up" and declare NO in sufficient numbers that the ones we employee have no choice but to heed our commands. and they are commands. they are not in charge. WE ARE and we simply "permit" them to function. We simply need to STOP permitting them to function.

But how do you make a less and less educated apathetic populace work together?

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

nerys, why would you pay taxes that you do not owe?

First, let's be clear about something. There is no such thing as an "Income Tax" although that's what it's called. Income (the Supreme Court definition of it) is actually NOT the subject of any tax. The tax is an excise tax on an ACTIVITY -- the privilege of doing certain kinds of business with an agreement with the U.S. Gov't. The amount of INCOME is used to measure how much of this privilege you have exercised. It is used to calculate the tax.

You don't have any income, just as I don't. I do not pay taxes, for I do not exercise this PRIVILEGE with the government. I exercise a right to exchange my time and labor for money. I am a nontaxpayer, and the Revenue Codes do not apply to me.

Why, sir, would you pay taxes? You do not have to make the stand that Ed and Elaine are making. There are 10s of millions of people who do not pay taxes and do not file tax returns. Why would you?

Your taxes fund:
war
killing and torturing (including sexually) children
same as above, to adults
bombs
bankers' solid-gold toilet seats
congress' "acts" on us
nation-building and regime-changing throughout the world
TERROR ATTACKS ON OUR OWN PEOPLE -- eg U.S.S. Liberty, Oklahoma City, 9/11, and many many more
TERROR ATTACKS ON OTHER PEOPLE

I don't mean to be rude or uninviting to anyone. I just don't think we need anyone here who participates in such atrocities. I would hope that you'd make the right decision about it.

If you need help and want to make sure you do everything 100% correctly, then schedule and appointment with Dave Champion. He can be reached at his website: www.nontaxpayer.org

Stop funding murder and torture. You can't claim ignorance, either, because you've just been told what you're doing. And that goes for anyone else here who's paying taxes. Mad

Newbie Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 4

well its the same reason people pay "protection money" to mobsters

No its not right No you/I do not owe it but YES they can and will kill you if you refuse.

Or in this case ruin your life.

It also does not eliminate the fundamental problem. IE we are overtaxed. Even if we somehow eliminate "income tax" they will just raise medicaire and SS tax or make a new one all of which is legal to compensate for the loss.

IE what we need is tax reform marshaled by the people.

There is a reason our Constitution Says We the People by the People and not We The People by the Government.

I wish people would wake up and see this.

I will express the same thing I express to many people and my dad etc..

Law is meaningless. Rules are meaningless. Right and Wrong are meaningless (individually)

All of these mean nothing when you really get down to it. Only one thing has any meaning and thats Execution and Enforcement.

a 55mph speed limit has no meaning if no one will enforce it.

Paying income taxes being wrong means nothing if no one will "enforce it" (in this case enmass)

ie they DO ENFORCE making you pay. Is it wrong yes is it illegal probably. But again Enforcement is everything.

I will definitely check out your link later tonight.

to answer your question more concisely.

"nerys, why would you pay taxes that you do not owe? "

Because the ones demanding it have the enforcement capacity to compel me too.

I am right now fighting to get THOUSANDS of dollars back that the government owes me. 5 years worth of tax returns "helled up" and it took till now me getting LUCKY and getting ahold of the right person to find out it a set off and whata set off is.

PA "lost" my tax returns for 2001-2005 and so think I did not pay my 3.07% PA tax. Even though its automatically deducted from my pay each pay check.

So I have to get ahold of all my past W2's so I can "refile" all my tax returns to prove I did pay them to get the set off taken away so I can get my tax returns and then I will likely be imposed fines and fees which I will have to fight.

Thats why I am never going to use withholding again. At least I will have some control and if I PAY my taxes each year I will have a reciept.

You would think after "ONE" supposed missed return they would have sent me a letter saying hey you missed us this year. Sad

Newbie Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 4

Also that URL you provided says I DO owe the tax if I volunteer such as giving my employer my TIN but this raises a question

He implies I am not liable for the tax if I do not give a TIN or use withholding etc..

Well at least here in PA its ILLEGAL for an employer to hire me UNLESS I give them a valid TIN.

How does this work in that situation?

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

10s of millions don't pay, and most have no problem. A very tiny percentage of people run into issues. Ed and Elaine knew this, and planned to make their stand. Most people will not have to make the type of stand that they are.

If you think that you should pay taxes -- that these laws apply to you -- then by all means keep paying. You are sealing your own fate. You are also sealing the fate of others, by supporting criminal, immoral activity. You're funding evil.

I don't fund evil, many of my friends do not, some of my family does not, etc. No one's troubling us. The IRS couldn't touch me if they wanted to.

Shaun Kranish is my given name. I live in Rockford, IL. I don't pay "income taxes" of any sort. I'm not afraid of them.

Why are you? Do yourself a favor, and pay Dave Champion a few hundred dollars to straighten your issues out. Just remember that he does not offer any services to taxpayers. If you are a taxpayer, you're out of luck. If under law you are a nontaxpayer, or believe you should be a nontaxpayer, then he can help you.

You can't excuse directly funding terrorism, torture, and murder.

Newbie Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 4

And your avoiding my questions. Again Mod Mobster Protection Money. SAYING I will not have an issue does nothing for me if I do. Its no guarentee its no protection. Are you going to come bail me out if your wrong ?

I did not think so.

You also did not answer my question second. In order to survive I MUST WORK. and where I live I MUST provide a TIN in order to work. Champion says if I provide a TIN I am liable for taxes.

Can you remedy this conundrum.

--BANNED-- by Admins Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 6

Quote:

10s of millions don't pay, and most have no problem

Those 10s of millions include small children, the elderly, and people who are unemployed. It's a bad idea to find any safety or show of support in those numbers.

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:43 pm

deleted

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

Your employer (common sense, not legal term as defined in IRC) cannot lawfully withhold ANY money from your paycheck.

There is absolutely no requirement anywhere to have a TIN in order to work. So how can you say this? I have a job and work. I don' even have a social security number, let alone a TIN!

I'm sorry that anyone here is squirming for "safety or show of support in those numbers." What happened to doing what's right, and refusing to do what's wrong? Is it so simple that it's too hard to grasp? I'm not perfect either, gentlemen, in no way. If I were perfect, I wouldn't still be going to court over BS felony gun charges.

However, I'll be DAMNED if I pay for brutal killing and torture. I'll be DAMNED if I pay my enemies. Don't be a coward.

Newbie Joined: Apr 25, 2007 Posts: 1

nerys wrote:

And your avoiding my questions. Again Mod Mobster Protection Money. SAYING I will not have an issue does nothing for me if I do. Its no guarentee its no protection. Are you going to come bail me out if your wrong ?

I did not think so.

You also did not answer my question second. In order to survive I MUST WORK. and where I live I MUST provide a TIN in order to work. Champion says if I provide a TIN I am liable for taxes.

Can you remedy this conundrum.

Let us examine this Mafia like mentality...

You mention your obligation to offer this protection money but please tell me what sort of protection it brings... We are consistently threatened with a rain of terror yet spoon fed a wicked mess of foolish blind trust peddled off as patriotism. Blood is on their hands, doll... Are you going to be the one to pay the wages of the murders, the thieves, and the liars? Are you going to offer your labor to those responsible for so much misery? As Americans, we hold a responsibility to our country, our honor, our children to work toward that all too loosely coined term "freedom". Your backbreaking work which aides our economy is tax enough. Without the workers, there is no machine... My paycheck is my own. I am 23 years old and I have never paid a dollar of tax in my life and I sure as shit do not intend to as long as I am among the workforce.

I understand your fear... It is certainly difficult to get one's mind around the thought. They seem so large and untouchable... It is my honest opinion that instead of paying taxes or hording our bills, we entirely abandon the dollar, the Amero and the credit system... Invest in silver and gold. As long as the federal reserve has it's thumbs in our pies, we are slaves to the every whim of power obsessed individuals. Its like I always used to say...

who wins the game of monopoly? The banker (or the fellow who prints the money)

bring this plutocracy down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

Newbie Joined: Apr 26, 2007 Posts: 1

Why doesn't somebody put some pressure on the 'Southern Law Poverty Centre' or whatever the name these NWO rats go under?

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

Why hop into a snake pit and go to battle? Why fight with skunks? Just ignore them.

There's no silver-bullet answer to freedom. Freedom is MERELY a choice. The more that make the choice, the more free everyone is -- until we're completely free.

Recruit Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 193

5-Year Prison Sentence For Brown As New Waco Draws Nearer

Concord Monitor | April 25, 2007
Margot Sanger-Katz

A federal judge sentenced tax protesters Ed and Elaine Brown to more than five years in prison yesterday, giving them sentences at the top of the range recommended by probation officers but below sentencing recommendations offered by the prosecutor.

The couple did not attend the hearing, and Ed Brown refused to recognize the sentence or the federal court that issued it.

"I've been convicted of crimes?" he asked in a phone interview yesterday.

The couple have been holed up in their fortified Plainfield home for several months, saying that any attempts to arrest them will trigger a violent confrontation with federal officials.

(advertisement)

The Browns were convicted in January of conspiring to defraud the government, conspiring to disguise large financial transactions and disguising large financial transactions. Elaine Brown, whose West Lebanon dental practice earned the couple's income, was also convicted of multiple counts of tax evasion and failure to withhold employment taxes. The government calculated the couple's unpaid tax bill at roughly $750,000.

The Browns, who maintain that federal income tax laws don't apply to them, argued during their trial that the laws were invalid. Midway through the trial, the Browns stopped attending the proceedings. Ed Brown issued internet and radio statements that the situation might turn into "another Waco" and urged armed supporter to help him resist capture. In 1993, a standoff between the Branch Davidian religious sect and federal officers near Waco, Texas, resulted in 80 deaths, including those of four law enforcement agents.
Elaine Brown returned to court several days later and was released into the custody of a son in Massachusetts on the condition that she not return to her husband.

But a few weeks after the guilty verdict, she violated the terms of her release and joined Ed Brown in Plainfield. On a daily internet radio show and in sporadic blog posts and news interviews, the couple have challenged the validity of their convictions and the jurisdiction of the court, and they have issued threats against the judge, prosecutor and other federal officials.

Yesterday, it appeared that the U.S. marshals took those threats seriously. More than a dozen marshals were positioned around the courtroom during the sentencing. Others stood at patrols around the Concord courthouse during the day. Several of the marshals said they were brought in from out of state to work the hearings.

"We have concerns," U.S. Marshal Stephen Monier said at a press conference after the sentences were announced. "We're genuinely concerned because of their use of the internet, the blogs and some of the statements the Browns have made."

Judge Stephen McAuliffe rejected attempts by the prosecutor to boost the couple's sentences outside of the range recommended by probation officers. Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Morse argued that both Browns' sentences could be increased under federal sentencing guidelines because they had disrupted government functions and committed further crimes as fugitives. He also asked the judge to depart from the guidelines altogether because of the unusual circumstances surrounding their convictions.

"The defendants are thumbing their noses at the rule of law every step of the way," Morse said.

McAulliffe handed down nearly identical sentences. Both Ed and Elaine Brown were sentenced to 63 months in prison and three years of supervised release. The conditions of their supervised release require them to immediately file accurate tax returns for the years of their crimes and to comply with any payment plan required by the IRS.

The judge also finalized an order requiring the Browns to forfeit part of their interest in their home and office building found to be related to their crimes. The couple can satisfy that requirement by paying the total judgment, about $215,000.

During the trial, Elaine Brown turned down a plea deal that would have included a two-year prison sentence.

McAuliffe said the Browns' sentences were appropriate, given that they had been convicted of "garden variety" tax crimes, but he noted that they might face additional prison sentences if they were charged and convicted of the other crimes Morse described.

During the sentencings, Morse mentioned the Browns' destruction of Elaine Brown's electronic monitoring bracelet as a federal felony and also referred to threats against court officials, another federal crime.

Morse did not answer reporters' questions yesterday, but in a phone interview on Monday he said he could not comment on whether his office planned to charge the Browns over those allegations.

The Browns have 10 days to appeal their convictions. It is unclear whether they will. Shortly after the jury verdict in January, the couple attempted to file an appeal, but it was rejected as premature. In recent statements, the Browns have said that they will no longer receive mail from the court or file any documents. Joe Haas, a friend from Gilmanton Iron Works, said that Ed Brown told him yesterday that he would not file an appeal.

"Ed says he doesn't care. He doesn't acknowledge them. It's all a fiction," Haas said.

In a phone interview yesterday, Brown did not answer questions about his appeal, but he questioned whether the judge's ruling applied to him.

"Who's he?" Brown asked. "What's he? Part of the corporation of the United States? That has nothing to do with me. I'm a natural living soul."

Monier, the U.S. marshal, said his office's strategy has not changed as a result of the sentences. He said his staff will continue to communicate with the Browns and will not initiate a siege or standoff at their home.

"We're just not going to engage in that kind of game with them," he said.

In a letter he sent to the couple yesterday, he urged the Browns to turn themselves in.

"We have, and will continue to take, all reasonable steps to resolve this peacefully," he wrote.

Monier did say that his office will take action against Brown supporters who bring weapons to the Plainfield house or otherwise provide "assistance, aid, or comfort to the Browns in their continuing efforts to obstruct justice and avoid apprehension."

Since Ed Brown stopped attending his trial, he has been visited by a number of supporters who have brought food, weapons and technical assistance to him, and later to Elaine. Monier did not say whether friends who brought food might be subject to prosecution, but he did say visiting would be allowed.

"It's got to be a little bit more than just, 'Let's go out and say hi to Ed and Elaine today,' " Monier said.

About 15 supporters either attended the hearings or demonstrated outside the courthouse yesterday. Most said they were not surprised by the outcome.

"The whole thing was unfair, so it's still unfair," said Bernie Bastian of Weare, a close friend of Ed Brown's who attended every day of the trial. Bastian waited outside the courthouse yesterday because he said that he did not want to recognize the court's jurisdiction over his friend.

"I expected them to do wrong, and they met my expectation," he said.

Newbie Joined: Apr 29, 2007 Posts: 69

This may be straying off the topic a bit, but our founding fathers, as untrusting of government as they were, did seem to feel that a certain amount of government is necessary to secure the rights and freedoms affirmed by the Constitution. Funding is what makes things happen and without funding there could be no military to repel invasion, no law enforcement to prevent anarchy, and so forth.

Back to the Browns, what, if anything, should these people do at this point?

Newbie Joined: Apr 15, 2007 Posts: 1

nerys wrote:

It also does not eliminate the fundamental problem. IE we are overtaxed. Even if we somehow eliminate "income tax" they will just raise medicaire and SS tax or make a new one all of which is legal to compensate for the loss.
IE what we need is tax reform marshaled by the people:-(

They may attempt to create a new tax, or increase an existing tax, but to do so legally is very difficult. The framers were very clever in the limitations they placed on the government.

It is important to note that Congress can not just create an unconstitutional tax. The US Constitution mandates two "rules" concerning how the government can lay lay direct and indirect taxes.

Direct taxes must be "apportioned among the several states which may be included within this Union". [See Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 and Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4.] and "All duties, imposts and excises [indirect taxes], shall be uniform throughout the United States". [See Article I, Section 8, Clause 1.]

If the issue comes down to what is constitutional and what is not, taxation is quite simple. It only gets confusing when the politicians attempt to usurp a power they don't have.

nerys wrote:

...raise medicaire and SS tax or make a new one all of which is legal... Sad

Hmmmm... Assuming that these taxes apply to everyone is an interesting concept. Pray tell how so?

nerys wrote:

..what we need is tax reform marshaled by the people.. Sad

Reform??? What do you suggest?? Which criminal activities, that our government is involved in, would you suggest we reform??

How about instead of "reform" we just tell our servant government to obey the constitution - the supreme law of the land.

What is really interesting and I believe more at the heart of the problem, is the government's ridiculous interpretation of Federal jurisdiction.

I recommend to any Citizen of These United States to research the legal constitutional jurisdiction of the federal government.

Newbie Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 9

So, what’s the latest on Ed & Elaine? I heard them on the online radio show yesterday, they sounded good. Are they doing ok? Any word on their current status?

Newbie Joined: May 16, 2007 Posts: 1

If they put ED and Elaine Brown in Jail, we will all become closer to losing our freedom and become slaves. The Courts have failed to protect our Constitutional rights, so what other remedies do we have ?
Mike

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 9:47 am

f they put ED and Elaine Brown in Jail, we will all become closer to losing our freedom and become slaves. The Courts have failed to protect our Constitutional rights, so what other remedies do we have ?
Mike

Mike, Understand who you are, a man of the Sovereign People or a Slave, THEN ACT ACCORDINGLY.

Ray

Site Admin Joined: Apr 03, 2007 Posts: 580

We are already slaves -- that is the true reality of it. Ed & Elaine getting killed or getting jailed won't make it worse for us.

There's a chance here to make things BETTER for us though. As many people as possible must come to Ed & Elaine's defense. If the "authorities" surround Ed & Elaine, we must then surround the authorities and demand they lay down their arms -- or FIGHT.

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 1:02 pm

The Revolution will be Guerilla Warfare.

Shaun wrote:

Raymond Karczewski wrote:

s: > We are already slaves -- that is the true reality of it. Ed & Elaine getting killed or getting jailed won't make it worse for us.

s: > There's a chance here to make things BETTER for us though. As many people as possible must come to Ed & Elaine's defense. If the "authorities" surround Ed & Elaine, we must then surround the authorities and demand they lay down their arms -- or FIGHT.

rk: I perceive should a revolution become necessary, it will be a departure from the traditional british skirmish lines of opposition of identifiable targets by uniforms, etc. Such primitive system of warfare has always been designed toward achieving the greatests amount of casualties and death in a designed agenda of population control.

rk: Make no mistake about it. The NEW WORLD ORDER wants to wipe out a large percentage of human beings living today.

rk: In such dutiful and obligatory confrontations the people will lose, because the government has superior weaponry.

rk: No Shaun, the next revolution will take a lesson from the Vietnamese, the Iragis, the Afghanis who have taught us the way to deal with superior forces and that is guerilla warfare, underground, stealthful operation focusing on targets of opportunity, selective assassinations, etc.

rk: God help Police officers on traffic stops. They are being deliberately put in harms way, by their leadership who consider them expendable.

rk: To my brothers in Law enforcement, I know there are many of you who are as Ignorant of the part you play in the BIG PICTURE, as I was in my career. I have had my eyes opened. I have awakened. I pray that you too shall open your eyes to see what is going on around you and stop the present unfolding momemtum.. Your life and the lives of your family and neighbors depends on it.

rk: I invite all police officers to to read http://www.arkenterprises.com/index11.html to see what your leaders will do to one of their own!!

Raymond Ronald Karczewski©

Newbie Joined: Jun 22, 2007 Posts: 1

How are the goverment going to give Elaine jail time when she violated no laws? There isn't a law on the books that say you have to pay taxes. Too many fall for the BS and go along with the program and that's why the Goverment has been getting away from this for so long! Time to rise up! Mad